Solving the World's problems with common sense and a flamethrower.

Monday, January 05, 2009

Israel: Learning From History

There is a word to describe Israeli settlements in land siezed post-1967: Lebensraum.

There is a word to describe the restrictions on Palestinians, forcing them into tiny, overpopulated areas, denied aid and economics: Ghetto.

There is a phrase to describe the attack by a sophisticated, modern military machine on a mostly civilian population, causing significant civilian casualties, for the actions of a few: Collective Punishment.

The saying 'those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it' is not applicable in relation to Israel's actions. Israel certainly learned from the atrocities suffered by the Jews in the Holocaust.

They learned how to do it to others.


Brennig said...

Craig Murray put it well:

Obnoxio The Clown said...

There's a word for attacking a much stronger neighbour on a daily basis with rockets: "stupid".

There's a word for setting up your rocket launch sites in the middle of residential areas to make sure kids will get killed in the retaliation: "psychopathic".

There's a word for putting up with people who do this to you: "cunts".

Dungeekin said...

Hi Obo

All of which points I agree with.

However, while it's true that the Israelis are dealing with an enemy that professes to wish only its total destruction, it seems to me that the 'overkill' methods they're using do kinda remove any right they may have had to the moral high ground.


Obnoxio The Clown said...

My default position is to support Israel, although they have done things which I found indefensible. However, several hundred rocket attacks on civilians, day in and day out, is not something that requires a reasonable response.

This was an exercise by Hamas designed to provoke the Israelis into launching a counterstrike, as it so often is. Irrespective of why Hamas are doing it, they are deliberately doing it and doing it in such a way as to maximise civilian casualties.

Imagine if Eire started launching daily rocket attacks on Bristol. How many people would have to die before you agreed that actually, even though Eire isn't a military match for Britain, they needed to stop doing it? What happens when they've been doing it for forty years? If the Irish then got rockets that could reach Oxford or Reading and were using those? Would you say that British response of going in and kicking the shit out of them was still not morally justified?

Israel has a fuck-off military machine because they've been attacked many times since the creation of Israel as a state. I accept that sometimes they have been the aggressor and I oppose that completely.

But this time, effectively, Hamas is a little yapping dog, nipping at your ankles despite all your stern words and brandished newspapers. It has just kept on nipping and nipping and sooner or later it was going to get a grade-A boot right up the arse.

And this time, it has absolutely deserved it. Next time may be different, but this time, the yids are in the clear, in my humble opinion.

Dungeekin said...

I think I'd be asking for diplomacy. After all, that's been our cry in many other conflicts.

I fully agree that Hamas needs a kick up the arse. In which case, and if Israel were in the slightest bit interested in my opinion, I'd suggest sending small-unit forces in to shoot the buggers, not chucking cluster bombs and white phosphorous.

I have no problem whatsoever with Israel shooting people. But to use the Irish analogy, how popular would the Brits have been in Ireland if, when the Grand Hotel got blown up, we'd started air-strikes and cluster-bombed the Falls Road?

It's a nasty position for Israel to be in - and I do support their right to defend themselves. However, I think the way that they're doing it is wrong.


AntiCitizenOne said...

Diplomacy doesn't work.

Lookup the words hudnu and taqiya.

and check out dhimmi.

J said...

Israel is fully justified.

This is not a holocaust. To call it such is a disgrace.

Hamas is to blame. Israel is not attacking the West Bank. Israel left Gaza without a peace treaty. Israel acceptable a ceasefire.

It is irrelevant that what Hamas fires is not proportional to Israeli response. They started it!

Hamas fires its weapons from civilian areas into Israeli civilian areas.

I am sad that civilians are dying but I do not blame Israel. I blame Hamas.

There will be no peace while one party wants the utter destruction of the other.